BEWARE- Amplifi sends out KILL updates-Do NOT BUY

  • @Russell-Crissman since the warranty is expired there is nothing the RMA Department can do to help you; nor are they legally required to after the warranty expires. It would be the same with any company once the warranty expires.

  • Hi @Russell-Crissman - did you use a credit card for the purchase?

    Most credit cards double manufacturer warranty periods of 1 year or less, some extend even longer

    If you used a CC, since your HD was 2 years old in June, you might call the CC company and tell them that the 12 June 2020 firmware update v3.4.0 broke the product and use the 'emergency' v3.4.1 update released the next day on the 13th of June as evidence of a significant issue that you suffered and could not work out with the manufacturer, and see about getting your money back that way

    You can also check your state's laws on implied warranties regarding fitness for a particular purpose
    Since v3.4.0 included security updates you can claim that the firmware was necessary to meet their security claims...

    If your credit card company does not offer a refund, then you should be able to eventually get a refund in Small Claims Court

    But you should be able to at least get a refund for the mesh points that you purchased after the router to expand coverage

    It seems like AmpliFi should offer a courtesy replacement if the firmware update caused the unit to malfunction and there is no way to disable the update notifications on the LCD screen which can easily be accepted accidentally by anyone passing by

    It is pretty rare for a firmware update to brick an HD device where you can't even boot to Recovery Mode

    I would recommend contacting the RMA department one last time asking for an out of warranty courtesy replacement due to the unusual circumstances, as I don't think this forum can offer any assistance with that process

  • @Derek-Saville @UI-AmpliFi As I have explained I have been in contact with RMA (3 times now) and each time they have given me no help. They state each time "sorry the product is over 1 year old" and unable to help further. I have explained the situation to them in detail and asked they read my posts here. Now the support people are saying basically "we cant help here and dont have any authority so you have to contact the RMA folks. Here is the exact message from:
    Kyrie Yetter (AmpliFi)
    Jul 14, 2020, 4:49 PM PDT
    Hello Rusty,

    This is not a known issue with these units. Unfortunately, since the device was purchased 6/14/2018 the warranty expired 6/14/2019 so this device is ineligible for replacement via our warranty program.
    Kyrie - RMA Team


  • "This is not a known issue with these units."

    Hi @Russell-Crissman - if it helps, this issue has occurred multiple times in the past and has been documented on this forum, so I don't believe they can claim it is "unknown"...

    ...including instances where people could not boot into Recovery Mode

    Hi @UI-AmpliFi - this is not a one-off occurrence and your RMA department should be aware of that right?

  • @Russell-Crissman first off, as you’ve stated now more than once, your device is out of warranty. AMPLIFI is thus under NO OBLIGATION to help you because of that.

    Second, I have the SAME older router as you, and I updated it this morning to 3.4.1 with absolutely no problems whatsoever, as have many others, and that nixes your claim that the firmware was designed to kill older devices.

    Third, we have a dozen of the HD routers at work, and they all updated fine, with the only issue being a Comcast outage this morning. All the routers continuing working fine.

    Fourth, when I chatted with them, AMPLIFI Corporate suggests you contact your credit card company and see if they provide any kind of extended warranty for you, which was suggested by another user above. They confirmed there is no technical support or replacement they can provide once you’re out of warranty. Any chance of goodwill support from AMPLIFI was lost, per Corporate, with the title of your post.

    Fifth, I confirmed with Geek Squad and Microcenter that there were no known issues with AMPLIFI routers or firmware to cause your issue except for a corrupted firmware download, and that putting your router into Recovery Mode to reinstall the firmware SHOULD fix the issue.

  • @Richard1864 First, yes it is out of warranty by one year. However just before their death update I was a happy customer who had marvelled about the simplicity of their product to others already, spent more money expanding my setup already, barely two years down this brand's path mind you, only to find the whole setup completely unresponsive immediately after the update last weekend. I didnt have problems and try fixing something thru an update process. I had only seen the update message once many months before. I touched the screen to apply it like anyone I would guess.
    I am simply asking @Amplifi-HD to do the RIGHT THING and send me some kind of replacement for my unit I feel like they broke. I shouldnt have to lose my investment this soon. I shouldn't have been given the run around like they are doing. And since you sound so chatty and suspiciously tight with 'corporate' why dont you ask them to share my chats over two days trying everything under the sun they suggested, in a calm, diligent, concerned fashion mind you? In the end support indicated they would help but then sent me to the brickwall RMA dept where I got nothing but "sorry but..." I begged them to help me and only threatened to take this out into the public if they kept denying any obligation in it!
    Second, good for you, I have no idea how you would know unless your 'corporate' friends shared that info with you, but I hope this doesnt happen to you and I bet if it did you would feel different if your unit was barely two years old! I never said they designed firmware to do this, I simply stated exactly what they had done to ME. So no it doesnt nix anything.
    Third, I am again glad you have not had this problem with your dozen routers, BUT I DID with my one single unit.
    Fourth, suggesting I go to my credit card company is a cop out and passing the buck. I want Amplifi to do the right thing here. Further, I spent a lot of time talking to chat support trying to get resolve before I threatened, and followed through, with my posts for help!!! @Amplifi-HD has been fully aware and had at least 10 chances over 3 days to extend "goodwill" before I put up any of this post so dont give me that bull either.
    Fifth, you are sounding like a "company related" party so much now I think you are trying to send the situation off the scent and obviously not interested in HELPING my situation.
    Thanks to a real concerened citizen @Derek-Saville above who just responded with proof that it IS A KNOWN ISSUE. (Thanks for real advice @Derek-Saville) and LASTLY, why cant you understand that I CAN NOT put my unit into recovery mode, as you keep suggesting, or I would have done that already?!! Boy, as smart as you try to sound that is such a dumb remark at this point! No thanks for your further "help" with my situation sir.

  • @Derek-Saville Thank you Derek. I hope @Amplifi-HD or someone will let "KYRIE YETTER in the RMA Team" know this!

  • @Derek-Saville Oh my gosh Derek. You are exactly right. This same thing has happened to several other people.
    By the way dont take much advice from that Richard guy. He sounds like he somehow works for Ubiquity to me.
    I am sending this link you shared to him and anyone else who wonders if this has happened to anyone else. I feel for them.

    Here it is again for PROOF

    PLEASE @Amplifi-HD Wont you stop all this and DO THE RIGHT THING!!!???

    @Richard1864 @Amplifi-HD @UI-AmpliFi @UI-Brett @UI-AlexCaldas @Kyrrie Yetter Kyrie Yetter in RMA

  • Hi @Russell-Crissman - AmpliFi did not intentionally send out an update to render your router inoperable and unrecoverable, or any of their products inoperable and unrecoverable

    It is extremely rare for a router to get stuck and unable to boot into recovery mode, but it has happened

    Most of the time, recovery mode is accessible, you can reload the firmware, and get back up and running relatively quickly

    The router probably experienced corruption during the update process and/or corruption occurred during the reboot, possibly due to a power issue

    AmpliFi personnel and people will react negatively to the implication that there was intent to disable any device

    I did not interpret your original message as being a definitive accusation, although I can understand how some people would take it that way

    You just sound upset about having a device completely fail during the routine act of updating it, which shouldn't happen

    But the update itself is not what caused the failure...something else occurred during the update process, and it is not unprecedented

    I hope you can find a way to work it out with AmpliFi's RMA group and get a replacement, but again, there isn't anything the support engineers on this site can do other than direct you back to the RMA team once the Recovery Mode option is exhausted

    After that it comes down to talking with your credit card company (if a CC was used for purchase) and then small claims court which you would likely win by default

  • @Derek-Saville thanks, I never said they did it intentionally but they did send and it did happen and they are not, so far, doing anything about it except tell me it is not a known issue, and it obviously has happened to others in the other posts you showed me. So yes I am upset and I am doing this until they send me a replacement unit for the one I feel they rendered inoperable by the update they pushed to me. I will delete all my comments. If they had warned me it could happen I may not have done it because my setup was working fine. I feel betrayed and left in the cold. @UI-AmpliFi @Amplifi-HD DO THE RIGHT THING!!!

  • @Russell-Crissman I talked to corporate to try and HELP you, and pass on what THEY said about your issue. It was never meant to insult you. But right snow now they aren’t inclined to provide you any assistance. As was said above by another user, your best bets at this point appear to either get help from your credit card company or small claims court.

    Word of advice, if you go to small claims court: do NOT claim that AMPLIFI sent you the firmware, since that would be easily proven false by their attorneys who would be able to show through server logs that you requested and downloaded the update yourself. I work in IT (but not for AmpliFi) and I’ve seen that claim tried and fail every time in court and arbitration.

    Something happened either during the download or the update process to corrupt the update. The trick is to figure out which, and that where I would start.

    Step 1: Before getting the update, when was the last time you rebooted the router and broadband modem? Were you having any other internet issues at the time you downloaded the firmware (websites slow to load or missing sections, for example)? Did your ISP have an outage in your area?

  • Hi @Richard1864 - most consumer grade routers do not have a LCD which automatically receives a push notification from a cloud controller to install an update

    Such updates on other routers are more typically found on a management website or management app where they are easily dismissed and not publicly displayed

    Do you think he really needs to avoid discussion of receiving the update?

    The push notification process is out of the consumer’s control

    There is no way to turn the push notifications off, nor protect against a bystander installing the update, that I am aware of - although it has been requested

    State Warranty of Merchantability laws also override Manufacturer Warranties

    AmpliFi has a one year warranty on manufacturing defects, but they also claim “lifetime support”

    I have seen ‘lifetime support’ claims argued extended to security updates, which the AmpliFi firmware release includes

    AmpliFi routers are not severed and completely independent of their backend cloud network

    It could also be argued that the extreme rarity of an unrecoverable boot implies a pre-existing defect was potentially present from the time of manufacture

    So I was thinking in arbitration @Russell-Crissman has a good chance of winning and it would be nice, in my personal opinion, if AmpliFi granted him a courtesy replacement, instead of going through that trouble

    But I would be curious as to your opinion considering the experiences you have had?

  • @Derek-Saville notifications of an update aren’t considered the push of the update itself, they’re literally just considered a notification. Unless automatic update is enabled, then the end user has always been found responsible in multiple lawsuits for initiating the download and install of router firmware updates. That’s why most vendors do NOT enable automatic firmware update, or even have it; to avoid that legal liability.

    And to prove the bad update was caused by an inherent defect in the router, he also has to prove there were absolutely no internet issues on his end or the ISP’s, as the manufacturer can use that in their defense too. It’s just standard investigation steps.

    Before you blame someone else for the problem in court or arbitration, you have to be able to prove without a doubt there was nothing on your end that could cause the issue.

    Personally and professionally, I’ve found that 9 times out of 10, I’ve found that bad firmware updates are usually caused by (a) end-of-life cable modems, whose out-of-date firmware and worn out internal hardware can no longer handle large data transfers, (b) insufficient free RAM/caches in routers and cable modems, which weekly reboots would fix, (c) worn out/broken ethernet/coax cables and splitters inside and outside the house/business, (d) damage due to power surge, which connection to surge protector might have prevented and (e) cable modem and router overheating due to being kept in closets or otherwise not exposed to continuous cooling airflow.

    I've lost 5 routers since 2006 which were damaged by power surges which fried the internal storage, thus corrupting the firmware. All my routers and cable modems now have their own surge protectors.

    There have also been new malware developed which infect cable modems and routers, which frequent reboots and resets-to-factory-defaults easily remove. Said malware often corrupts firmware updates, because those updates remove the malware and block its return.

    The enduser isn't responsible for that malware's installation, but is responsible for the modem/router care, like the periodic reboots, keeping them in open rooms with temps below 80° F (75° or cooler preferred), connected to surge protectors, common sense things.

  • Agreed @Richard1864 - and that is consistent to what I have seen in small claims arbitration, but the AmpliFi HD is slightly different from any other consumer router that I have seen go through the process

    I am aware the notification is not an automatic install, but I have not seen the public display of a pushed notification tested

    AmpliFi has not safegaurded the unit from unintended updates

    AmpliFi would know if the update was successfully sent out to the target, and they may know if the target acknowledged successful receipt, although they probably won't ever disclose that

    It would be down to @Russell-Crissman testimony if the screen indicated it was installing the update (confirming there were no ISP issues) and then upon reboot the unit failed
    I have seen similar or less instances for that to be enough to get to arbitration and then a default judgement when the other party fails to contest it

    It would be interesting to know AmpliFi's record with contesting small claims

  • @Derek-Saville agreed. Oh, and can AmpliFi recover the support logs from a crashed router like his, if they had it in a repair facility? I know Netgear, ASUS, Linksys, and others router makers can; it would be interesting to see what those logs said was going on before and during the update.

  • @Richard1864 it's probably clear as day as to what's happening if you pop the unit open and attach a USB TTL to the serial line. May even be a simple fix to get it booting again with access to the hardware. I doubt it's permanently bricked. Unfortunately, due to the attitude of the post, I'd be surprised to see anyone volunteer to help.

  • @Michael-Eckhoff agreed. And spamming the forums with multiple posts like this might get him banned from the forum.

  • @Richard1864 But then you'll have a conspiracy to silence those being oppressed by the mighty corporations laughing about all the money rolling in by bricking somehow one of the only devices ever to become out of warranty.

  • @Derek-Saville Securifi uses an identical notification and update system with their Almond routers, as does TP-Link with their LCD-equipped routers. It isn’t a new system.

  • @Michael-Eckhoff That is what I have been thinking ever since I saw the first post! I understand being upset but to post a headline as he did would upset almost any company. If he has been without internet as long as he has, it means that at some point he has to "S**t or get off the pot at some point" and do whatever it takes to get his internet up and running. That does not mean he does not stop pursuing the issue with Amplifi.

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