Updating to 3.5.1 kicks almost ALL my WiFi devices onto SSID-extending Apple Airport Time Capsule!


  • The actual update took almost no time at all compared to previous firmware updates (I started at 3.4.0), but after the update completed, my Alien now shows NO Wi-Fi clients! Turns out that now they're all listed as wireless clients of my previous router (an Apple 3 TB internal HDD 802.11ac Airport Time Capsule that I had reset back to factory defaults, then added to my LAN again as a network extender of my AmpliFi. The Time Capsule is connected to the Alien (LAN port to WAN port of the Time Capsule) by Ethernet.

    Rebooting the Alien moves my principal computer (a 2019 16" MacBook Pro) to a direct Wi-Fi client of the Alien, but all other Wi-FI clients are now listed as being on Ethernet, and all of course connected via the same Ethernet port on the Alien that "feeds" the AirPort Time Capsule.

    I guess I could try rebooting the Apple Router; perhaps while it's offline rebooting, all the other wireless clients will "swear allegiance" again to the Alien.

    Any advice?


  • Disaster for Amplifi Alien.
    Up to the release from 3.5, they still cannot resolve the issue(S).

    Poor support and respond time!


  • @boscolee in the two days since my original post, most of the wireless devices that became listed as "Ethernet" clients of the LAN port of the Alien that was connected to the Apple Airport Time Capsule (actually still WiFi clients, but obtaining that wireless access to the LAN via the Time Capsule), have reverted their described status to being Wi-Fi clients of the router (but one or two that had made that migration are now once again listed as Ethernet Clients of the Alien although they're actually listed as attached to the Ethernet port that is connected to the Time Capsule.

    Before I purchased the Alien, and in my initial experience after putting it into my network INSTEAD of the Time Capsule, the Wi-Fi performance of the Alien was considerably better than that of the 802.11ac Time Capsule (Speedtests done from the part of our house farthest from the router were much better with the Alien tha with the Time Capsule. I've reintegrated the Time Capsule primarily to make use of its 3 TB internal drive for computer backup via Apple's "Time Machine" software. I don't know if I can somehow turn off the Wi-Fi radios of the Time Capsule so that ALL the routing and Wi-Fi connections are managed exclusively by the AmpliFi router, but that might be a solution.


  • I'm not 100% sure what to say here, as I am not really familiar with that device. I will say however, that after the upgrade, I found one of my AP's Alien, needed to be power cycled, which was a first.

    I would generally recommend to completely remote old routers, at least until the new stuff is configured and operating, then integrate additional stuff.

    I have not found anything that will not work on it, wired or wireless. However, you cannot use any device on both Ethernet and Wireless, they will always revert to Ethernet. It might be helpful if you have a specific question regarding the Alien, or how to configure it.

    I did a post a while back with a few tips on how to configure for the best performance.

    All clients, wired and wireless will (should) show up as devices. You can also access a topology tree via the web login.

    I have been using wireless routers since they first came out, and I have used them all.
    In my opinion, there are Alien improvements I am waiting for, but it is still the very best router I have ever used, in terms of solid performance, and reliability my number one priority, as well as overall experience. Still waiting on WEP3 and 160Mhz however for over a year. Cmon Gang let's knock it out of the park.

    Under no circumstances will I ever buy another router or anything else from Asus even if they gave it to me. My last experience was a disaster, and they company did a horrible job of addressing it. Highly unimpressed. I went from hourly random resets to solid reliability with the Alien, and despite a few issues along the way with various updates addressing problems over time. I have never had a glitch or a problem that kept me offline. That is an amazing feat.


  • @unseenone said in Updating to 3.5.1 kicks almost ALL my WiFi devices onto SSID-extending Apple Airport Time Capsule!:

    you cannot use any device on both Ethernet and Wireless, they will always revert to Ethernet. It might be helpful if you have a specific question regarding the Alien

    First, apologies for my delayed acknowledgement of your post.For reasons unknown to me my mail client deposited it in my junk inbox.

    Second, I may not have made clear what my issue was, and that may impair my ability to parse your response.

    What happened to me is that, while I was running firmware 3.5.0, I had reintegrated a recently "mothballed" Apple 3 TB internal hard drive "Time Capsule" 802.11ac router onto my LAN as a wired network extender (not creating its own SSID). When I did the Alien firmware update, several of my Wi-Fi clients (with no Ethernet connection themselves) became listed in the AmpliFi app as ETHERNET clients of the Alien, whereas in actuality they were all able to be seen on my LAN solely because of their WiFi radios; All of them were listed as connected to the EN4 LAN port of the Alien, but that port was connected, Alien LAN EN4 to the WAN EN port of the Apple router.

    Over the next 24 hours, many of those client devices (with no purposeful change in my network settings or router reboots) reverted to correctly being designated as WiFi clients of the Alien. I'm assuming (because I don't understand these things well enough) that while my Alien was rebooting (and therefor unavailable) some of my WiFi clients "found" the Apple Airport Extreme Time Capsule, but that since IT was receiving its own network traffic via a LAN-extending EN connection from the Alien, when the Alien finished rebooting many of those devices were reported as being EN clients of the Alien, via the LAN-EN4 port of the Alien to WAN EN port of the Apple router. Why those devices would have spontaneously changed their connection mode over the next several hours is what I don't understand.

    This morning, only ONE client device's connection (my Nest Guard security hub) is mislabeled as connected via the AmpliFi's EN4 LAN port (again, the port that's connected to the WAN port of the Apple router. The 3 devices are arrayed in a line on top of cabinet, L to R, 4 inches apart: Apple Time Capsule,then Alien, then Nest Guard. The Nest Guard HAS no EN port. Because it's listed as an EN client of the Alien, I'm assuming that it's somehow bonded to one of the Time Capsule's WiFi radios with its traffic then routed by the Alien LAN to Time Capsule WAN ethernet connection. Why that should happen is a mystery to me, but perhaps it's a consequence of the 3 devices being physically so close to each other. I could try rebooting the AppleTime Capsule to see if the Nest Guard changes its "allegiance" while the Time Capsule is unavailable because of its a/c power being cycled.


  • No problem; just trying to help.

    You do not want to DHCP servers on your network, and there is absolutely no need to run two WiFi systems, IMO. So to that end, here's some comments to consider..

    @jsrnephdoc said in Updating to 3.5.1 kicks almost ALL my WiFi devices onto SSID-extending Apple Airport Time Capsule!:

    Apple Airport Extreme Time Capsule

    Can we go ahead on disable the WiFi on the airport..

    Can I use Apple Time Capsule without WIFI?
    Yes, absolutely. You can connect the Time Capsule via ethernet to the rest of the network via its WAN port, and it will be available to any computer that connects to the network, whether that Mac is using Wi-Fi or not. In AirPort Utility, you can disable a base station offering Wi-Fi service.Apr 11, 2016

    How do I turn off Wi-Fi on my Apple Airport Time Capsule or Airport Extreme?

    Launch Applications > Utilities > AirPort Utility.
    Select your base station and click the Edit button.
    Enter the base station's administrative password, if prompted.
    Click the Wireless tab.
    From the Network Mode pop-up menu, select Off.
    

    Then let's configure our WiFi in a good way. Here is an outline of what I would setup, then put all your Legacy 5Ghz equipment on the 5Ghz WiFi on the Alien..?

    Here is a general guide on how I think the WiFi should be setup on the Alien.

    https://community.amplifi.com/topic/3455/optimize-your-alien-tips-tricks-discussion


  • @unseenone said in Updating to 3.5.1 kicks almost ALL my WiFi devices onto SSID-extending Apple Airport Time Capsule!:

    You do not want to DHCP servers on your network, and there is absolutely no need to run to WiFi systems, IMO. So to that end, here's some comments to consider..

    I'm going to assume I should read that as "you do not want [two] DHCP servers on your network.

    I'll try turning off the WiFi radios on the Airport Extreme as you suggest and see what happens. I'll be happy with that for now, and perhaps try to tweak performance when I move into another house in about 2 months.


  • From what I can tell, what you've described is 100% expected behavior. What' happened is during the Alien update, the Alien had to reboot. During the reboot process all your client devices lost connection, as expected. All those devices then looked for another known network to join, which they found in your Apple Airport device. Since they joined the Apple Airport network they will show up as ethernet connected devices on the Alien because that's how the Airport is connected. This is all normal and expected behavior. The recommendation to disable the wifi on the Airport will indeed resolve the issue. With the Airport wifi being disabled, the next time you update the Alien, when it reboots your wireless clients won't be able to join the Airport network, because it's disabled, and will re-join the Alien network once the reboot process is complete and the Alien wifi is back up and running.


  • @jsrnephdoc Correct, that is what I meant, the edit feature only works about half the time on this forum. You're welcome.. Keep us posted.


  • @unseenone AND @bshaheen, I thank both of you for your comments, and I'll probably disable the WiFi radios on the Airport Extreme Time Capsule per your recommendations.

    However, one thing puzzles me still.

    The Airport Extreme is configured as a network extender (not broadcasting its own SSID). When the Alien rebooted after completing its firmware update, its absence of a/c power surely meant that it could not dole out IP addresses through the cable connecting it to the Time Capsule. I guess it's possible that as it awoke and sorted itself out, the portion of its embedded software that can dispense those IP addresses over Ethernet came up before its own WiFi radios did, which would then have permitted the manner in which my WiFi clients all attached themselves to that single Alien LAN EN port via the Time Capsule's WiFi radios.


  • It sounds like @bshaheen knows this product somewhat. I do not, but I can tell you that the xBox for example, is on (sleeps) when you power it off, and I can confirm that is still does background work.

    I think, by disabling the Apple product, and configuring your WiFi clients to only access the Alien, via the secondary (ALIEN5G) type connection, as I outline in the linked article. You should have stable clients on the Alien. Then you can introduce the function via Ethernet only of the Time Capsule.

    At the end of the day, as an example, I have a mix of three Alien Mesh AP's with two WiFi SSID's, one which runs AX WiFi 6 clients (ALIENAX), and one that services WiFi 5 clients (ALIEN5G) as well as an assortment of clients and switches that run on the Ethernet. It all communicates seamlessly for example, (Ethernet) SAN, PRINTER, XBOX, ROKUTV, etc. It will make things a bit easier to break up your configuration into smaller bits, to get the config right, and reliable. Another think you can (and should) do is where, possible, remove the SSID from the clients for the old Time Capsule as well. Some clients I have, I have disabled automatic connection to SSID I do not want it to connect to automatically, or eliminate it altogether to avoid this sort of problem, where is is jumping on the the wrong AP.

    I hope this helps.


  • @unseenone said in Updating to 3.5.1 kicks almost ALL my WiFi devices onto SSID-extending Apple Airport Time Capsule!:

    I hope this helps.

    I'll bet your advice about telling the clients that have been hanging around here longer than has the Alien will be well served by telling them to forget their prior wireless relationships with the Apple router 😎


  • @unseenone said in Updating to 3.5.1 kicks almost ALL my WiFi devices onto SSID-extending Apple Airport Time Capsule!:

    I hope this helps.

    I'll bet your advice about telling the clients that have been hanging around on my LAN longer than has the Alien will be well served by telling them to forget their prior wireless relationships with the Apple router 😎


  • @unseenone I finally had some"sweetheart still in bed so not needing the 4K LG OLED smart TV to be on" time to play with the settings on my Airport Time Capsule this morning. It seems to have been a trivial fix. Must admit I panicked for a moment right after clicking the "off" dropdown in Airport Utility's "Network Mode" panel, wondering whether that would terminate the Time Capsule's ability to do its now primary job (wireless Time Machine backups of my 16" MacBook Pro). But, it kicked right in and continues to make them and display the older backups.

    I've not yet tried to fine tune my Alien's settings. We're now only a month or so away from moving to a new house 250 miles away, and THAT's where I might need MESH, so I'll leave the Alien set up as is for now.

    But, one thing still puzzles me. Back when I did the 3.5.1 update and discovered several WiFi devices now "claiming allegiance"afterwards to the network-extending Time Capsule while the Alien was rebooting, just how did they do that? Given that the Time Capsule was configured as a network extender, how could it have supported "Ethernet" (but actually wireless) clients through an Alien LAN to Time Capsule WAN port when the Alien's network was actually offline?

    Anyway, thank you for your help. You'll probably see this thread extended one more time in mid to late May once we're in our new house and I'm rebuilding my network in a home with Cat 5e cabling running to every room! I've already discovered one "gotcha;" after a 10 round multi knockdown battle between my wife and myself regarding just what should be nestled in the corner next to our fireplace (which I supposedly won because she'd consented to have the stud-penetration "smurf tubing" for all the cables we'd hide from behind my custom built electronics cabinet-credenza to a position above the adjacent fireplace mantel where the LG big screen is supposed to go), I discovered during our last pilgrimage to the house-under-construction that after all the drywall was in place, my proposed resting place for that lovely (at least to a guy) solid cherry cabinet is just about 1/4" too narrow.

    The next best spot for the cabinet is going to require some serious pondering (and crawling around in the crawl space) and exploration of just how long HDMI cables can be ☹


  • @jsrnephdoc

    Hi; No problem at all. One thing with Alien, is if it is reboot (I suggest a power cycle after that update) is the Ethernet will come up before the WiFi. This is an expected behavior.

    On your devices which used to connect to the Apple, I suggest deleting the WiFi configuration for the Apple. You should have used a new unique name for the Alien, and added a new Network Configuration WiFi for it. You will need to delete the non-relevant AP's such as the Apple, so it does not "fall back" to the next available Access Point, when the primary one (Alien) is not available. That should solve that problem.

    Keep at it.. see you after your move.


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